Q1: Is the table E-3 from 1935 third rule appropriate for first rule and second rule in D and E divisions?

A1: Yes; With due consideration to the First and Second Rule when required.

Q2: Isn't it in favor of sometimes heavy masts with low CG to heavy masts and right CG?

A2: The mass moment inertia addition to the Rule is to be more inclusive of masts that may be overweight but with a slightly low CG. With this new addition there is no advantage as the pitching moment of the yacht will not change.


(a) Are "sought from" and "reviewing submissions" sufficient to replace Lloyd's Survey or checking at measurement?
(b) At least three rebuilt wooden decks are 22mm thick instead of 35mm as required by the original Lloyd's class R certificate. When "repairs and alterations must be of a standard consistent with original structure of yacht. The weight and weight distribution of any repair or alteration shall not be more favorable than the original construction of the yacht."
(c) Is a carbon fiber rudder allowed on a 1939 yacht?
(d) Shouldn't it be mentioned on the rating certificate with an appropriate weight correction or A/DCF?
(e) Does another 1939 yacht still complies with Lloyd's Class R when it leaks so that a bilge pump and engine have to be run all along a world championship?


(a) Permission must be sought for structural changes
(b) If the weight per unit are as not equal to or greater than that of the 35mm deck the modification would not satisfy the rule and the certificate may be withdrawn.
(c) Yes
(d) Not for a rudder and no correction to the A/DCF.
(e) Electric bilge pumps are permitted. Mechanical engine driven pumps are not permitted however the electrical power may be provided by an engine to supply electrical power to the bilge pump battery.

Q4: If the aluminium spar is such a progress that it is not allowed to the entire Division D as it was allowed by the rule. Wouldn't it be necessary to assign all originally fitted aluminium spars to division C, B and A. Or to assign all division D in Division C before separated rudders? Then to assign division D to second rule yachts?

A4: There is no limitation on aluminium masts being fitted to any yacht in Divisions A, B, C, D or E.

Q5: How could historical yachts with gaff, ketch or schooner rigs be measured according to 8.1 current edition of the class rule when on 32.1 "The yacht shall be rigged as a Bermudian sloop."?

A5: Appendix E will have an addition to enable the measurement of gaff ketch and schooner rigs as set out the First and Second Rule

Q6: As the form confirms, there is no rule number or any reference in Appendix E. Now, with a mix of preamble with a page of rules, the regulation is so complex and undefined that it is unenforcable. Don't you think that Appendix E should be in line with the whole 1907 rule and define accurately any rule reference and word?  At the end of "Fleet Age /design Division " non rule number we read : ITMA may assign ... in special cases where ... . Is the permissive "may" appropriate while (a) considers post 1987 constructions and (b) considers alterations that concerns class rules at the time, when ITMA has no ability to measure Under rules up to 1919 and any yacht built between 1935 and 1983 is allowed to change anything to the original drawing as far as it complies with the third rule.

A6:  Appendix E is primarily written around Third Rule yachts but is intended to include First and Second Rule yachts. First and Second Rule yachts are few in number and require specific consideration on an individual basis. Specific questions about First and Second Rule yachts will be answered by the Technical Committee upon application.

Q7:  Is it possible to ignore anymore the first 1907 and 1919 second rules era measurements while 8 meter and 15 meter do and this update has no other issue than the 1935 third rule?

A7: As stated above First and Second Rule yachts are included in the provisions of Appendix E. First and Second Rule Yachts are able to be measured by ITMA measurers.  Owners may request that yachts be measured to the First, Second or Third Rule as appropriate.


(a) The minimum section area at deck or Mast Datum is not according to 1935 rule, which is 516 mm.
(b) There is a serious difficulty as mast dimensions do not comply with standard aluminium sections.  Couldn't ITMA consider to keep the minimum weight and CG, but delete the sections requirements for the use of approved standard extruded production sections? Taking that a small one may need 3 sets of spreaders with added rig weight and windage.


(a) Yes; It is proposed to direct attention back to version of the rule prior to the 1985 version to allow the dispensations permitted under these Rules.
(b) Yes it’s a good idea but not at this time as there are existing sections available that comply with the Rule.

Q9: The cockpit area of many wooden 12m is less than 4.6 square metres, if any. I suggest to delete the minimum area.

A9: Agreed and now in place in Draft Rule.

Q10: The ITMA is not the only meter class and the third rule is not the only concern. Under World Sailing there are 6m, 8m and 15m active series Under the 1907 common 1907 rule. Many yachts of first 1907 rule and second 1919 rule were restored and have to be measured. Under World Sailing, isn't it necessary to reconsider common rules to all classes and measure all twelves Under their original rule with World Sailing approved measurers common to all classes?

A10: There are very few First and Second Rule Twelves still in existence and interested in racing. This is not the case with Third Rule 12’s. Notwithstanding this, ITMA encourages all owners of twelves independent of the Rule under which they were built.  The First and Second Rule yachts require individual attention and consideration when being measured which ITMA is happy to provide.  ITMA is very happy with the technical management and measurement for the Class and has no desire to depart from its present process of appointing class measurers.

Q11: I would like to see the number of batten pockets increased to (5) as it would add to the life of our mainsails.

A11: An idea worth considering but not for this version. Maybe something that might be forecast for the next version of the Rule.